I am not sure what I should do with this, so I am fishing for
opinions, thoughts etc.

I took off from an airport and immediatly requested and received VFR
flight following through some Class C which lies between my current
position and my destination. I climbed to 5500 +/- 100ft and was
vectored through the Class C. When I was near the edge of the Class C
( I estimate I was 2-3 miles from the edge of exiting the Class C) I
was asked if I can resume own navigation, and report destination
airport in sight, I reported airport in sight and the controller told
me "resume own navigation, squak VFR, Radar services terminated"

I flew along for a short time and noted I was below the 5500 ft
ceiling of the class C (by around 100ft) and immediatly climed to
5600ft for the remaining couple miles.

So... Obviously I was in the Class C, and though I was still on
approach frequency, I do not think that I was still in radio contact,
right?

Is a NASA ARS form appropriate? Was I wrong and did I bust the C?
Mike Flyin' 8

On May 2, 9:22 pm, Mike 'Flyin'8' > wrote:
>
> So... Obviously I was in the Class C, and though I was still on
> approach frequency, I do not think that I was still in radio contact,
> right?
>
> Is a NASA ARS form appropriate? Was I wrong and did I bust the C?

Nope you didn't bust class C. The controller terminated radar
service, but you're still on his frequency were you? You should,
however stay on his frequency until you're cleared of class C, or to
receive prior permission to change frequency if you're still in class
C.

Mike 'Flyin'8' > wrote:
> I am not sure what I should do with this, so I am fishing for
> opinions, thoughts etc.

> I took off from an airport and immediatly requested and received VFR
> flight following through some Class C which lies between my current
> position and my destination. I climbed to 5500 +/- 100ft and was
> vectored through the Class C. When I was near the edge of the Class C
> ( I estimate I was 2-3 miles from the edge of exiting the Class C) I
> was asked if I can resume own navigation, and report destination
> airport in sight, I reported airport in sight and the controller told
> me "resume own navigation, squak VFR, Radar services terminated"

> I flew along for a short time and noted I was below the 5500 ft
> ceiling of the class C (by around 100ft) and immediatly climed to
> 5600ft for the remaining couple miles.

> So... Obviously I was in the Class C, and though I was still on
> approach frequency, I do not think that I was still in radio contact,
> right?

> Is a NASA ARS form appropriate? Was I wrong and did I bust the C?
> Mike Flyin' 8

I doubt it since they were probably expecting you to decend anyway
and they were the ones to terminate service.

Which brings up the question, if you were near the edge of the class
C, why didn't you just ask for enroute decent?

Also, why did you climb to 5500 to begin with?

Most C airports want you to cross midfield above the pattern
altitude, but I've never heard of one that wanted you above the
C to cross.

I go through C on a regular basis to get back to the home airport.

The drill is get flight following on or shortly after takeoff.

As I approach the C, request enroute decent to 4500 and get handed
off to the tower when I enter the C.

Ask the tower for enroute decent to 3500 and cross midfield. I know
from experience they don't want you crossing lower than that.

Once across the runway, request decent to 2500 which puts me about
300 feet above pattern altitude for the destination.

About half the time tower asks if I have the airport in sight as
I'm about to tell them I have it.

Squak VFR, thank you, announce on Unicom and enter the pattern.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

>Which brings up the question, if you were near the edge of the class
>C, why didn't you just ask for enroute decent?

My airport is still 15+ miles from the edge of the Class C. I like to
remain high until I clear the small mountains (hills?) between the
Class C and my destination airport. Never really thought about an
enroute decent.

>
>Also, why did you climb to 5500 to begin with?
Mountains & safety I guess. I usually pick 5500 or 6500 for my local
Cross countries.


>Most C airports want you to cross midfield above the pattern
>altitude, but I've never heard of one that wanted you above the
>C to cross.
He asked me what altidude I would be climbing to and I told him
5500... that was the end of conversation.

>I go through C on a regular basis to get back to the home airport.
>
>The drill is get flight following on or shortly after takeoff.
>
>As I approach the C, request enroute decent to 4500 and get handed
>off to the tower when I enter the C.
>
>Ask the tower for enroute decent to 3500 and cross midfield. I know
>from experience they don't want you crossing lower than that.
>
>Once across the runway, request decent to 2500 which puts me about
>300 feet above pattern altitude for the destination.
>
>About half the time tower asks if I have the airport in sight as
>I'm about to tell them I have it.
>
>Squak VFR, thank you, announce on Unicom and enter the pattern.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I was not sure and
have read and re-read the FAR and just was not sure on this one.

Mike Flyin' 8

>Nope you didn't bust class C. The controller terminated radar
>service, but you're still on his frequency were you?
Yes, I am quite sure I was still on freq. but I do not recall him
telling me Freq change approved either.

>You should, however stay on his frequency until you're cleared of class C, or to
>receive prior permission to change frequency if you're still in class
>C.

Good point. I will certainly file this in my memory banks. Thanks for
your time on this.

Mike Flyin' 8

On May 2, 10:01 pm, Mike 'Flyin'8' > wrote:
> >Which brings up the question, if you were near the edge of the class
> >C, why didn't you just ask for enroute decent?
>
> My airport is still 15+ miles from the edge of the Class C. I like to
> remain high until I clear the small mountains (hills?) between the
> Class C and my destination airport. Never really thought about an
> enroute decent.
>
>
>
> >Also, why did you climb to 5500 to begin with?
>
> Mountains & safety I guess. I usually pick 5500 or 6500 for my local
> Cross countries.
>
> >Most C airports want you to cross midfield above the pattern
> >altitude, but I've never heard of one that wanted you above the
> >C to cross.
>
> He asked me what altidude I would be climbing to and I told him
> 5500... that was the end of conversation.
>
>
>
> >I go through C on a regular basis to get back to the home airport.
>
> >The drill is get flight following on or shortly after takeoff.
>
> >As I approach the C, request enroute decent to 4500 and get handed
> >off to the tower when I enter the C.
>
> >Ask the tower for enroute decent to 3500 and cross midfield. I know
> >from experience they don't want you crossing lower than that.
>
> >Once across the runway, request decent to 2500 which puts me about
> >300 feet above pattern altitude for the destination.
>
> >About half the time tower asks if I have the airport in sight as
> >I'm about to tell them I have it.
>
> >Squak VFR, thank you, announce on Unicom and enter the pattern.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I was not sure and
> have read and re-read the FAR and just was not sure on this one.
>
> Mike Flyin' 8

I wouldn't worry about it. I've had controllers tell me "squawk VFR,
freq changed approved" while I was still in the airspace.

Usually they will only bust you for airspace violations if it's
something that effects saftey (which would be anything involving class
B), or something really blatant, such as coming into a class D and
doing a bunch of touch and go's then a full stop without a peep to
tower (this actually happened once at the airport where I fly).

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am not sure what I should do with this, so I am fishing for
> opinions, thoughts etc.
>
> I took off from an airport and immediatly requested and received VFR
> flight following through some Class C which lies between my current
> position and my destination. I climbed to 5500 +/- 100ft and was
> vectored through the Class C. When I was near the edge of the Class C
> ( I estimate I was 2-3 miles from the edge of exiting the Class C) I
> was asked if I can resume own navigation, and report destination
> airport in sight, I reported airport in sight and the controller told
> me "resume own navigation, squak VFR, Radar services terminated"
>
> I flew along for a short time and noted I was below the 5500 ft
> ceiling of the class C (by around 100ft) and immediatly climed to
> 5600ft for the remaining couple miles.
>
> So... Obviously I was in the Class C, and though I was still on
> approach frequency, I do not think that I was still in radio contact,
> right?
>
> Is a NASA ARS form appropriate? Was I wrong and did I bust the C?
>

You weren't wrong, you didn't bust Class C airspace, you didn't need to
climb back up, and you have no need of a NASA form. Controllers are
supposed to terminate Class C service to aircraft landing at satellite
airports within Class C airspace or the associated outer area at a
sufficient distance from the airport to allow the pilot to change to the
appropriate frequency for traffic and airport information. FAR 91.130
requires radio communications while within Class C airspace, but like most
FARs dealing with ATC it begins with the phrase "unless otherwise authorized
by ATC."


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/ATC/Chp7/atc0708.html#7-8-8


§ 91.130 Operations in Class C airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operation in
Class C airspace must be conducted in compliance with this section and
§91.129. For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport
for which the Class C airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is
any other airport within the Class C airspace area.

(b) Traffic patterns. No person may take off or land an aircraft at a
satellite airport within a Class C airspace area except in compliance with
FAA arrival and departure traffic patterns.

(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace
must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:

(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio
communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of
foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic
services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those
communications while within that airspace.

(2) Departing flight. Each person-

(i) From the primary airport or satellite airport with an operating control
tower must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the
control tower, and thereafter as instructed by ATC while operating in the
Class C airspace area; or

(ii) From a satellite airport without an operating control tower, must
establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility
having jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area as soon as practicable
after departing.

(d) Equipment requirements. Unless otherwise authorized by the ATC having
jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area, no person may operate an
aircraft within a Class C airspace area designated for an airport unless
that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in
§91.215.

(e) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section
under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility
having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may authorize a
deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual flight, as appropriate.

[Doc. No. 24458, 56 FR 65659, Dec. 17, 1991, as amended by Amdt. 91-232, 58
FR 40736, July 30, 1993; Amdt. 91-239, 59 FR 11693, Mar. 11, 1994]

> You weren't wrong, you didn't bust Class C airspace, you didn't need to
> climb back up, and you have no need of a NASA form. Controllers are
> supposed to terminate Class C service to aircraft landing at satellite
> airports within Class C airspace or the associated outer area at a
> sufficient distance from the airport to allow the pilot to change to the
> appropriate frequency for traffic and airport information. FAR 91.130
> requires radio communications while within Class C airspace, but like
> most FARs dealing with ATC it begins with the phrase "unless otherwise
> authorized by ATC."

Thanks Steven. I was certainly terminated well before my destination
airport. My destination was probably is excess of 12 miles from the edge
of C airspace, which is certainly enough time to loose the altitude to get
into the pattern safely.

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

M wrote:
> On May 2, 9:22 pm, Mike 'Flyin'8' > wrote:
>
>>So... Obviously I was in the Class C, and though I was still on
>>approach frequency, I do not think that I was still in radio contact,
>>right?
>>
>>Is a NASA ARS form appropriate? Was I wrong and did I bust the C?
>
>
> Nope you didn't bust class C.


Correct.


The controller terminated radar
> service, but you're still on his frequency were you? You should,
> however stay on his frequency until you're cleared of class C, or to
> receive prior permission to change frequency if you're still in class
> C.

No, if the controller terminates you then there is no reason to remain
on the frequency.

No need to call with all these descent requests. If they want you at or
above a certain altitude they will let you know. Otherwise descend at
your discretion.




wrote:


>
> Which brings up the question, if you were near the edge of the class
> C, why didn't you just ask for enroute decent?
>
> Also, why did you climb to 5500 to begin with?
>
> Most C airports want you to cross midfield above the pattern
> altitude, but I've never heard of one that wanted you above the
> C to cross.
>
> I go through C on a regular basis to get back to the home airport.
>
> The drill is get flight following on or shortly after takeoff.
>
> As I approach the C, request enroute decent to 4500 and get handed
> off to the tower when I enter the C.
>
> Ask the tower for enroute decent to 3500 and cross midfield. I know
> from experience they don't want you crossing lower than that.
>
> Once across the runway, request decent to 2500 which puts me about
> 300 feet above pattern altitude for the destination.
>
> About half the time tower asks if I have the airport in sight as
> I'm about to tell them I have it.
>
> Squak VFR, thank you, announce on Unicom and enter the pattern.
>
>

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

>>Nope you didn't bust class C. The controller terminated radar
>>service, but you're still on his frequency were you?
>
> Yes, I am quite sure I was still on freq. but I do not recall him
> telling me Freq change approved either.


Radar service terminated means just that.



>
>
>>You should, however stay on his frequency until you're cleared of class C, or to
>>receive prior permission to change frequency if you're still in class
>>C.
>
>
> Good point. I will certainly file this in my memory banks. Thanks for
> your time on this.
>

Not necessary.

No problems... you knew you were about to leave ClassC
The controller knew you were about to leave ClassC
He had no more traffic for you, He said... "see ya"

You were "outbound" and no longer a problem. Both contracts were fulfilled.

No NASA ARS required.

BT

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" > wrote in message
...
>I am not sure what I should do with this, so I am fishing for
> opinions, thoughts etc.
>
> I took off from an airport and immediatly requested and received VFR
> flight following through some Class C which lies between my current
> position and my destination. I climbed to 5500 +/- 100ft and was
> vectored through the Class C. When I was near the edge of the Class C
> ( I estimate I was 2-3 miles from the edge of exiting the Class C) I
> was asked if I can resume own navigation, and report destination
> airport in sight, I reported airport in sight and the controller told
> me "resume own navigation, squak VFR, Radar services terminated"
>
> I flew along for a short time and noted I was below the 5500 ft
> ceiling of the class C (by around 100ft) and immediatly climed to
> 5600ft for the remaining couple miles.
>
> So... Obviously I was in the Class C, and though I was still on
> approach frequency, I do not think that I was still in radio contact,
> right?
>
> Is a NASA ARS form appropriate? Was I wrong and did I bust the C?
> Mike Flyin' 8